- Pastor Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church
Repeated beatings. Twisting his wife’s arm out of her socket. Forcing his children to lie to investigators after they noticed the signs of abuse. Such was the world of Pastor Fred Phelps, according to his estranged son, Nate Phelps. Fred Phelps, the Pastor of the Westboro Baptist Church, is infamous for picketing dead soldiers’ funerals, for proclaiming that “God Hates Fags”, and for rejoicing at Hurricane Katrina’s destruction. He, and thus his church, is motivated primarily by vengeance, namely, expressing God’s wrath. In the worldview of the WBC, of the whole world, only 30 or 40 people will be saved, and the beneficiaries are the congregants of Phelps’s church alone. Meeting with Nate’s brother, Jonathan Phelps, at the German Consulate in Portland during a Westboro protest piqued my curiosity. How could people be so intelligent, so superficially charming, so educated – yet so rageful?
In my discussion with Nate Phelps, I tried to identify the source of that anger, and ended up confronting a rage that was so mystifying that it could only come from deep within Nate himself. In arranging the interview, Nate said that he had “a lot of time” this week, and would be more than happy to talk. We set up a time, chatted for an hour, and had a second interview scheduled for that evening. Then silence. He stopped returning my emails, ignored my phone calls, and put me off for days. When I finally reached his partner, Angela Feldstein, she relayed a message of rancor from Nate himself; “He is done talking to you!” The man who had loads of free time was suddenly “too busy to talk”. In short, this maladjusted woman patronized me, she hung up the phone on me, and she emphasized never to “call back again.” My crime? I merely wanted to tell Nate’s side of the story.
According to psychological theory, it is typical for those who are abused to either become abusers themselves or to gravitate toward those who will perpetuate the cycle of vengeance. And abused Nate was. “Growing up [at Westboro] was very violent,” Nate explained. “My father would get angry. …The violence was both physical and verbal. From fists to the face to knees in the stomach, he beat all the kids.” However, the violence wasn’t limited to the children alone. “Wives are to be in subjection to their husband[s]. If my mother said or did something that he didn’t like…[she] was subject to his discipline.” And the discipline wasn’t limited to physical beatings; in rage, Phelps cut off all his wife’s hair. Although Margie, Nate’s mother, had to wear a wig for only a year, the consequences of Fred Phelps’s actions were far-reaching and psychological. In short, while Nate didn’t understand the rage’s source, “it was always there.”
When Nate Phelps was eighteen, he finally did escape, but he had to do it in the dark of night. “I spent the first few nights sleeping in the bathroom of a gas station. I had no idea how to deal with the real world.” And in my encounter with Nate and Angela, this inability to relate to a world where verbal abuse – in the form of harassing an interviewer – isn’t tolerated, became all the more apparent. In all the interviews I’ve done, including best-selling author and prominent philosopher, Daniel Dennett, I had never been hung up upon, nor had I ever been treated inhumanely. When contemplating such actions, I could not help but be reminded of Nate’s father, Fred Phelps, who was equally hostile to Louis Theroux of the BBC in the documentary, The Most Hated Family in AmericaThe same anger, the same disregard for others’ feelings, and the same holding people to fictitious time schedules was something that bore more than a superficial resemblance to Pastor Phelps himself.
Although Nate is thirty years removed from Fred Phelps’s hostility, it is obvious that he still suffers from the traumatic effects of his abusive father. And as is typical in cases of victims with a rageful parent, the abused’s visceral anger often gets taken out on others, like interviewers merely trying to portray their point of view. While I was troubled by the encounter, in the end, I had to remember with whom I was talking. Nate’s first marriage ended with three children, plenty of arguments, and divorce papers. Likewise, although I was interested in Pastor Phelps’s rhetoric, Nate kept steering the conversation back to his trauma, which obviously clouded his ability to have an earnest discussion about his father’s oratory. Equally bizarre, the same individual who was eager to set up a second interview, who appeared more than helpful, all of a sudden decides that he needs an emissary to tell off his interviewer. Although I may never be able to understand the source of Nate and Angela’s rage, I am content to leave that to the family psychiatrist.
Nate was subjected to years of mental, emotional and physical violence at the hands of a narcissistic parent, also being used as a scapegoat by his siblings in their own defense against their evil father. Of course there are unresolved issues, anger and pain.
This writer would do better to exercise some compassion and understanding in his attitude towards Nate, rather than whining that he was “treated inhumanely” because he was hung up upon.
One wonders what kind of person this writer would have turned out to be if he was subjected to half of what Nate was forced to endure, when he is already so vindictive towards someone just because things did not go his own way.
Nate, please read up on NPD to understand your family.
I am not vindictive because things didn’t go my way. Rather, I have a right to take Phelps’s comportment into account when I write a piece on the Westboro Baptist Church. Yes – one can be compassionate, but only to a certain point. If Nate Phelps had been abused and walked away last year, he might have gained more sympathy from me. To the contrary, he has had thirty years to straighten his issues out.
And any decent self-respecting human being has the right to think less of a person because of his behavior. You’d think that someone who had suffered so much at the hands of his father would at least show proper respect in keeping appointments, responding to emails, and returning phone calls. But apparently Fred Phelps’s son is the center of the universe because his Daddy is famous.
I think I’ve written my last piece on the Westboro Baptist Church. While I admit that they were fascinating from a distance, my curiosity got the best of me and I delved too far into a world in which I have limited expertise. That’s why I believe that psychiatry would be the best bet for these people. Perhaps they can take care of their issues so as not to take them out on the rest of the country.
Looks a lot like post traumatic stress disorder. Just revisiting severe abuse will cause negative reactions. The guy escaped Hell with all sorts of burns and abuse scars, and when someone shows him a snapshot of that Hell, his mind is suddenly thrown back to that terrible torment.
undoing all that evil may need several lifetimes to overcome.
I will celebrate Fred Phelp’s death. He’s an evil and vile man.
I am very sorry for all the children of Fred Phelps: those still in, and those who have escaped. Unfortunately, all will carry their wounds until death: Shirley Phelps Roper (whose heart belongs to Daddy), Nate and all the others. Fred will not be able to justify himself before God. I dare say he will try, but will cringe and cry out for mercy when the Lord Jesus will roar at him, ‘YOU SCRIBE! YOU PHARISEE! HYPOCRITE! WHEN YOU ABUSED YOUR CHILDREN, YOUR FAMILY AND YOUR ENTIRE WORLD, YOU ABUSED ME!’ Nate needs spiritual healing, psychiatric help won’t help him. It doesn’t matter when he left, be it yesterday or thirty years ago. He is still bleeding. Let’s not be one of those people who saw a wounded man (robbed and beaten), and ignored him Don’t allow Fred Phelps to destroy our compassion for someone so wounded.
I was reading a website on narcissitic personality disorder, and on said site was a link to the article Addicted to Hate, about being a child in this family. I was stunned as I read it.
I no longer think of Fred Phelps as npd. I think the man is a sociopath. Pure evil. Spewing hatred with such vehement energy and passing the evil to his children and grandchildren. If you really want a shock, go to YouTube and watch some vids of his grandchildren, as young as 2yo, spewing the hate.
I say to the offended reporter, get over yourself!! It’s so so sad that he ended communication with you. Grow up and quit whining. Nate Phelps endured pure evil for all the years of his childhood–not quite what I would call ‘issues’.
Of course he suffers PTSD. He will all his life. I only hope that he didn’t fall into the trap of abusing his own wife and children. God bless him and protect him all the rest of his life. People are up in arms about what the Phelps family does now–the hatemongering and picketing. What I see as the worst of the worst is what Fred did to his wife and children for all those years.
I think that Fred Phelps has already bought himself his own place in Hell. I doubt if he will ever be able to repent and turn to God, even if he were in the Light. Truth, love, light are all anathema to Fred Phelps.
What I have never been able to understand is where all that hatred came from in Fred Phelps. His mother died when he was fairly young. He was raised for many years by his aunt. It’s easy to think that she must have brutalized him. Or, he’s simply a sociopath.
The descriptions in Addicted to Hate about his actions toward his children are horrific to read.
God bless you to Nate, Matt, Kathy, and the other sister who left the family, who’s last name is Bird. We can only hope that some of the teenagers will be able to escape.
Julie,
I happen to be a close friend of Nate Phelps, and have talked with him many times about these issues. Just last week, he was a speaker at the American Atheists national conference in Atlanta, Georgia.
Yes, there is anger. I don’t see how anyone could go through such experiences and not be angry. But he is far from a man driven by anger. At the conference, Nate presented his story in such gentle tones that there was nary a dry eye in the audience. When he was specifically challenged (by Richard Dawkins, no less) to be more aggressive and seek to prosecute his father, you could see the pain that the prospect of having to face that man again would cause him.
This is a man who’s gone through hell, survived, and is now trying to build a new life.
So my question for you — curiously enough, although you say that Nate disagreed with your viewpoint or focus, you never actually tell us what that was.
Nate has faced a situation for many years where people seek to use his story to support their own agenda. You want to promote hatred of ALL Christians? Use the extreme example of Nate and his family. You want to grab a bit of media spotlight, and bask in the reflected media glory of bagging ‘the son of America’s most hated man”? Do an interview with Nate Phelps.
And calling Angela a “maladjusted woman” simply because she relayed a message that Nate no longer wanted to talk to you? My god, the arrogance! Her fiancee is going through an emotional firestorm after re-living traumatic experiences as he talks with you. Seeking to protect him, she tells you that he will not talk with you any more.
Let’s call this as it REALLY is…and since you’re so happy to cast aspersion on the character of others you barely know, allow me to do the same.
You’re a petty individual who thought they had scored by getting to do an interview with Nate Phelps. Nate initially thought that you sought simply to tell his story; later, he came to the conclusion (accurate or inaccurate I cannot judge) that you were seeking to present a story or perception different from that which Nate felt comfortable with. So he ceased communication with you.
Your self-inflated ego was so terribly upset at this absolute travesty — that both Nate AND his wife would actually say “No” to you! — that it led to this piece of useless pulp, in which you jump to wild conclusions that are unsupported by anything whatsoever except your own personal experience, and interpretation of that experience.
And that, in and of itself, says a lot to me. Because were I in Nate’s position, and was dealing with someone who, very obviously, will simply twist information and events to support whatever their personal opinion is, I would likewise refuse to have any further interaction with you.
Everything you’ve written here says little about Nate at all; it is based on ignorance and fleeting impressions, fed by a damaged ego. But it says a hell of a lot about you.
Hi John,
You don’t even know me, yet you call me a petty individual who wants to bask in media glory, by interviewing Fred Phelps’s son. This is not about me; it is about Nate Phelps, Angela Feldstein, and their actions. That is all I have to judge them on. And Nate Phelps and Angela Feldstein are not the kind of people who should be spokespeople for the freethought movement.
If Nate were a real man, he could have said his thoughts to my face. Instead, he takes the cowardly path – of terminating all communications, because of paranoia about my intentions with the interview – which were merely to tell his side of the story. His behavior is typical of adolescent females, who are passive-aggressive and run away at the pettiest of imagined greviances.
In the real world, if we have disagreements or misperceptions, we talk those out. If Nate didn’t want to continue to be interviewed, then he could have written me a courteous email. But instead, he uses his personal issues as an excuse to not obey the standards of normal communication, which are to be courteous and respectful. From my interactions with both Nate and Angela, I believe them both to have serious psychological issues.
To be totally honest, Nate is not a celebrity. The only reason why anybody knows who he is is because of his father, who, despite his political views, is an accomplished man. What does Nate Phelps have to say for himself? In his 50 or so years of life, he has worked as a printer, which, although it is useful, does not exactly equate with being a “media celebrity”. In all honesty, I have interviewed people as famous as freethought celebrity, best-selling author, and American philosopher, Daniel Dennett.
Angela Feldstein is the rudest person I have ever spoken to. Sorry that you cannot admit to it, but there is more than a little Fred Phelps in Nate Phelps and his fiancee. It is common psychological knowledge that those who are abused as children tend to become abusers themselves. Nate Phelps had an opportunity to set the record straight about his father. But instead, his paranoia about my intentions, which were honest and genuine, got the best of him.
Angela Feldstein didn’t merely communicate a “no” to me. She yelled at me, degraded me, and attacked me, as well as accusing me of speaking to Mr. Phelps for more than twice the time we had actually talked. And then she hung up upon me, when I objected to her behavior. This is not professional conduct in the least bit. As atheists, we all acknowledge we have only one life to live. Why not live that life in accordance with common standards of human decency, not in passive-aggression and paranoia?
I know your friendship with Nate and Angela will blind you to the realities of their behavior, but my only goal is the truth. And sadly, it is the case that Fred Phelps’s abuse had more than a little impact on the behavior of Nate. Abused people tend to be abusive, and tend to be less well-adjusted. Since you know the Phelpses, perhaps you could recommend the psychological and psychiatric treatment for them that will hold the key to their better adapting to the world. As it stands now, they ruined what could have been a positive relationship with a young leader in the freethought movement, who is truly concerned about victims of religious abuse.
Wow… reading this and you can see how much this entire thing is about ego, ego, ego.
“If Nate were a real man-”
“His behavior is typical of adolescent females-”
“To be totally honest, Nate is a nobody.”
“To tell you the truth, I have interviewed people as famous as-”
“And I don’t need Nate Phelps, for me to bask in the light of celebrity. For my young age, I have my own accomplishments.”
(two paragraphs of bragging about accomplishments)
“I could go on and on about my achievements. My accomplishments are based on my own hard work and dedication to excellence, in spite of adversity.”
“I need not bask in the glory of someone whose only accomplishment in life is being related to somebody famous.”
From what I can gather, Nate agreed to do an interview with you, but something about the interview caused him to (whether justified or not) doubt your motives. Considering the topic of discussion was his father, the fact that it seems (“Likewise, although I was interested in Pastor Phelps’s rhetoric, Nate kept steering the conversation back to his trauma-”) that you had differing views on what the interview was supposed to about, and that Nate has been diagnosed with PTSD, some paranoia on his part is understandable. He became convinced that your intentions are less than friendly and starts ignoring/possibly trying to avoid you. You eventually reach his wife (who likely knows about you primarily second-hand from her husband), who responds to you rudely while telling you there will be no more interviews and not to call again.
Understandably angry, but not content to keep your frustration to yourself, you then write an article about losing an interview in which you call Angela “maladjusted,” relay the story of losing your interview, and use it to insult him, suggest that he has abusive tendencies, and compare him unfavorably to him infamous father, thus confirming any fears or suspicions the couple had about your intentions and/or temperment. When comments supportive of Nate and critical of you appear, you go further and call him a nobody while listing your own accomplishments to sooth your bruised ego.
Wow – great job regurgitating John Lombard’s post! This article has nothing to do with my having a “bruised ego” and everything to do with the comportment of Nate Phelps and his fiancee. And Nate and Angela brought my commentary on themselves, through their immoral behavior.
By attacking me, you serve to effectively shift the blame for Nate’s behavior from himself to my “bruised ego”. By doing this, you make Nate and Angela’s actions irrelevant, and instead make me out to be the villain. In short, blame the victim, the one who was harassed and verbally abused.
I didn’t just go off on a tangent and list my accomplishments. Rather, John Lombard said that I was basking in the glory of Nate Phelps’s celebrity, because my ego was “damaged”. My point was to defend my own capability, not to brag about my accomplishments.
If Nate were so famous (and had some balls), why doesn’t he come onto this site and list his own accomplishments? Without such evidence, I maintain that Nate Phelps isn’t a celebrity, but rather is someone who owes his own “celebrity” to his father’s achievements. If Nate were so capable, the proof would be in the famous accomplishments of his 50 years of existence. However, I see no such evidence.
It’s easy to attack me and lose sight of the point of the article. Nate Phelps has PTSD and his abusive tendencies do resemble his father. For example, Nate has three children, and he abandoned all of them, to move in with a girl from Canada that he met on the internet. There’s no telling the impact a divorce and the absence of a father figure will have on children.
I feel so badly for Nate Phelps’s kids. Their Daddy left them, to be with a lady who verbally abused an interviewer merely doing her job. If she treated me this badly, I could only imagine how she treats the people closest to herself. The poor kids of Nate Phelps!
There’s a reason why psychologists say that those who are abused themselves are likely to become abusers, or to associate themselves with those who perpetuate physical, verbal, and/or emotional violence. Perhaps there are similar dynamics at play in Nate and Angela’s relationship. But, not being a psychologist, I cannot say more than this, other than that there is more than a little Fred Phelps in Nate.
In sum, this piece is about Nate, and not about me, so any further attempts to belittle the author of this article will be deleted.
Fair enough, no further attempts to belittle you shall be made by me. However, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that I believe Nate Phelps is “so famous” and that you are trying to leech off his fame. I believe nothing of the sort and couldn’t care less whether Nate is a “nobody” or not.
Small point though, on the topic of Angela you said “If she treated me this badly, I could only imagine how she treats the people closest to herself.” Isn’t this a little backwards? One would imagine that she’d treat those closest to her better than those which which her relation is purely professional (particular if she had a reason, justified or not, to distrust that person). If you saw her treating those closest to her horribly, then it would make sense to say “If treats those closest to her this badly, I could only imagine how she treats people with whom she does not share such a bond.”
To the author:
If Angela and Nate turn out to be the rudest people you ever meet, then you will have truly led a charmed existence.
I have to say i wasn’t very impressed with your wiki-based bubblegum psychological profiling of people youve spoken to briefly. Judging by your article, someone clearly didn’t get the pink pony they wanted when they were little. Possibly not true, but on a par with your level of insight.
Regards,
Rogan
I think that by stating Nate is a nobody simply because his career path has not been glittering with glamour makes the writer appear patronizing, haughty and more childish than those he/she has been complaining about.
To ridicule that his only accplishment has been in the printing buisness is pretty hilarious when you consider that without people in the printing buisness your writing would never reach the public; on second thought perhaps that wouldnt be a bad thing.
I find it kinda funny that people like this “writer” make inferences about people out of thin air. Like that Nate is anything like his father….Im not even going to go into that, because anyone who is taking the time to follow any link to this article likley knows that Nate is NOTHING like Fred Phelps.
Keep your chin up Nate. And Angela, if you are feeling maladjusted, I do know of a terrific chiropractor in your area; Obvioulsy therapy would be better suited for the writer of this malinformed and bad mannered article.
I think all sides are making this much too personal. Everyone is in part the product of their upbringing, and Nate Phelps is surely no exception; but each person still has responsibility for their own actions.
Nor do I see what the problem is with saying that Nate Phelps is angry; of course he is angry, and as well he should be. He needs to take out that anger on the right people in the right places, but this is a skill we all must learn.
Many of the comments have made personal attacks upon the author of this post, which is clearly inappropriate. Having read one post, you are by no means fit to judge its author’s character. If you knew the author personally, maybe then you could judge; even then, you should be careful to judge yourself no less harshly.
Having read one post, you are by no means fit to judge its author’s character. If you knew the author personally, maybe then you could judge; even then, you should be careful to judge yourself no less harshly.
Well said, however…when the author of the article decided to judge Nate without personaly knowing him, she really left herself open for some judgments of her own.
I believe Fred Phelps is indeed a sociopath. I have read about Westboro, and recently finished reading “Addicted to Hate.”
Nate has every right to be extremely selective of who he shares his experiences with – and equally selective about when he wishes to withdraw.
Most of us respond well to respect, insight and compassion; at the time of writing this article, the writer seems to be missing something in his/her character that would allow him/her to access these qualities, and thus deal with Nate Phelps and his story appropriately.
My goodness. I came upon this article while researching Nate. What a pompous ass you are!
I have to say the same as Laurie, above.
I saw this page off a random search for “Nate Phelps” on Google. I was disappointed to find no interview of Nate here, but oh well.
However, I was impressed by the childish petulance of rsasecular, whoever he/she is. This person has a lot of growing up to do.
Clearly rsasecular has not had to go through what this man has. I had a father not too dissimilar from Fred Phelps. We went to the fire and brimstone churches. We received beatings, and often at very random, unprovoked times. There was constant berating. Any sort of life essence manifests itself, then it must be snuffed. Joy was not permitted, only the mentality of a soldier, and a blind one at that. My father was so loony that he swatted me with his unbroken arm after he broke his arm in a fall at a state park, and he did this because a small child was crying. I was not allowed to pay any real attention to mythology in school, because it was evil. I could not read comics. When I refused to go to a church that much resembled “Jesus Camp” in my teens, I was accused of witchcraft and rebellion. When I was 11, my father told me I would never be anything nor do anything at all worthwhile, so I should not even bother. I, still having a spirit of resistance to this crap, not wanting to be completely dead inside, did spit in his face. He summarily beat me for thirty minutes in my room, leaving me with bruises on my face, neck, chest, back, butt, and legs. At least half the time we rode in the car with him (without my mother), he would swat at us in the back seat. The only times I remember not being swatted were when I was full of dread (what his sick mind might call respect). I remember specifically when I was playing Nintendo, and my father told me to cut it off. I got up within at least a few seconds (it was not very long) and went to cut it off. I was not dilly-dallying. He picked it up and threw it against the wall. When I was going into college (despite my high scores), he proceeded to tell me that I was dumber than all the others. He had no self-control, and the expression of a monster, not much unlike Fred Phelps in this picture. Anybody who did not go through something similar will never have the slightest clue what this man went through, growing up in a hostile, violent prison for body, mind, and soul. Nor should you. I would not wish this pain on anyone. It is quite unlike some child screwing their life up because they thought a particular grounding occurrence was unfair, which many seem to assume. I was taken to a psychiatrist in my late teens, but everything was denied, the concept of “false memories” was brought up by both mom and dad (both psych majors, fed on the BS of the late 60′s, coupled with violent hellfire religious fundamentalism. What a psychological weapon this was. I was even told at a young age of a specific life that God had prophesied over me, negating life experience. What BS). I have tried friendships, sex, abstinence, (prescription and illegal) drugs, no drugs, acts of generosity, read various religious texts, relied on spirituality without religion, hard work, etc., and to this day, I am still scarred. (I am 31). These experiences provided fuel to wreck my life, although I know that, for pragmatic reasons, I must continue to accept responsibility to this day forward (not saying I don’t need help). My personality is quite affected, but not for the purposes of deceit. It is because I was not allowed to develop one. Any joy or laughter was summarily punished. So, if you have a loving bone in your body, you will not judge this man. Your experiences were not the same as his. And in referring to this man as an adolescent girl, I think I might possibly know what you are getting at, but is it this man’s creation, or his evil fathers. Don’t replace one extreme for another. We are more than “polarities.”
Oh, and in regard to the childish petulance, it is not at all rare in America. It is well-awarded, in fact. I mean heck, was it irrational of this man to assume you were using him. You have “Join the Cause” as your slogan for crying out loud.