Reflections on the Westboro Baptist Church Protests in Portland
- Jonathan Phelps talks religion with Leslie Zukor
“Are these the ‘God Hates Fags’ guys?” I wondered, muttering under my breath near the German consulate on Monday morning. They hadn’t arrived yet, or at least they hadn’t pulled out their infamous signs after their morning protest at Portland State. “I like your hair,” the friendly individual says, and I smile back at him. “I would like your hair as a wig,” he says, half jokingly. I am used to getting comments on my hair, as that is one of my most distinctive physical features; I did win Best Hair in my Senior Poll.
- Jonathan Phelps explains the Bible as he sees it
“Yes, they are the same people,” the gay-rights activist next to me explained. And so the affable Jonathan Phelps, Fred Phelps’s 7th of 13 children, and I continued talking. “What motivates you to go across country preaching your anti-gay message?” I asked him, earnestly seeking an answer. He wasn’t shy about explaining, although I admit I tuned out his Biblical exegesis. For me, the Bible is nothing more than a bunch of stories, rooted as much in myth as they are in history.
But for the Westboro Baptist Church, preaching the literal word of the Old Testament is their calling. “I have been doing this for 19 years. It’s almost become an obsession for me.” Why the issue of homosexuality could become an obsession with a grown man is a topic for another day, although it did leave me wondering. “Why homosexuality over any other issue?” I asked, bracing for the inevitable Bible-rooted explanation. That, too, I admit, I tuned out. What interested me was not so much Jonathan Phelps’s answers but the way in which he interacted with the world around him. And before he left the prior Portland State protest, he went so far as to almost thank us for not being violent or disagreeable.
Despite the first protest’s civility, I left the second, more intimate protest feeling quite ambivalent. Here were these individuals, having traveled all the way from Topeka, Kansas to Portland, Oregon to protest gender-neutral bathrooms, Portland State’s non-discrimination policy, and the first transgender mayor of Silverton, near Hillsborough. Yet, the same people who were capable of such hate – the people who step on the American flag, who thank God for dead soldiers, who damn all dissenters to hell – carried on a decent conversation just like anybody else. Furthermore, they had the same mundane concerns – about the weather, about breakfast, about texting – as did any normal human being. Although I concluded – as did some estranged Phelps family members – that they were brainwashed members of a cult, they were always respectful of our right to free speech and made sure to be in accord with Portland law.
Zukor is dismayed that a protester blocks a WBC sign
- Protest at the German Consulate
Although no one changed their views on gay rights or hate speech laws, in my morning of counter-protesting, I learned a lot about human nature. Even those with fanatical views are capable of respecting the rule of law and freedom of speech. Furthermore, people with mainstream views on gay rights can be as discriminatory and intolerant as those against whom they are protesting. In sum, I came away with more respect for those with whose opinions I disagreed but who could be civil, than I did for any pro-gay activist who wanted to drown out the voices of the “other side”.
Pluralism doesn’t work.
What is fair to one group is oppression to another.
Religious people have strong beliefs about how a community should be; they have a right to that community.
So do atheists.
There is no single society that can be just to all of these people.
What a terrific observation from a refreshingly objective thinker. Separating emotion from fact is the only way to even approach an understanding. You don’t have to be loud to be right.
This WAS indeed a great article.
Might I say, though… the WBC has been at this for (at least) 19 years.
The Portland area gays probably haven’t had as much time to become bored with protesting and let their vitriol get away with them.
They’re babies at this, I bet. Comparatively.
The WBC’s message is the honest shame. That has a longer termed effect than a street-fight.
But I did like your article. I like the “surprise! they’re nice!” aspect, but kinda cringed at the tiiiiiiiiiny little WBC endorsement, although I know that wasn’t your aim.
Kudos, at any rate.
What’s the point of asking them questions if you’re just going to tune them out? Sounds like you’re not much different from them.
I don’t care how polite these troglodytes are in conversation. They don’t just picket gays, they picket the funerals of soldiers and Marines who have died in Iraq.
Why? Because America tolerates gay people.
They are sick, in-bred, unChristian and dangerous. I believe there may be homosexual issues with Old Man Phelps himself, otherwise why protest so much?
If I see one of these morons at a dead soldier’s funeral, I will forget my good manners and try to plant a combat boot so deep even Jesus won’t be able to see it.
“Separating emotion from fact is the only way to even approach an understanding. You don’t have to be loud to be right.”
There is merit to this statement, but be careful of separating the two too much. The Greeks had a concept for three modes of persuasion, not only for Logos (reason), but Pathos (emotion) and Ethos (moral or technical competence).
On a side note… studying the actions of people with damage to the frontal lobe reveals some interesting observations. The frontal lobe controls our emotions, so severe damage can lead to a virtual deadening of emotional workings. You might assume this leads to perfectly rational behavior, but in fact, it leads to complete irrationality.
This has led me to believe that logic, art, craftsmanship, love, and all other aspects of our being must be applied to solve our problems. I recommend the book Descartes Error if you’re interested in more about the role of emotion in the human minds ability to make sound decisions.
Happy Thanksgiving….
“What’s the point of asking them questions if you’re just going to tune them out? Sounds like you’re not much different from them.”
When I asked the WBC questions, I was expecting a much more nuanced answer than the Bible quotes I got. I assumed that since the “God Hates Fags” Church goes to incredible measures (such as traveling across the country) to protest America’s relative acceptance of gays, then they would give me a more weighty explanation for their hardline stance.
When I felt that no such explanation was coming, it was hard to give their message any more credence than I would to other varieties of fundamentalist Christianity. And I find it difficult to take them seriously when they interpret literally (and often selectively) the Bible, a work that was written 2,000 years ago, and expect it to be applicable to 21st century America.
-Leslie
Fred W. and Margie M. Phelps, Sr.
Westboro Baptist Church
3701 S.W. 12th Street
Topeka, Kansas 66604
Karl and Deborah Kay Hockenbarger
James Hockenbarger/Jennifer Hockenbarger
1929 S.W. Lane
Topeka, Kansas 66604
Fred W. Phelps. Jr. and Betty Phelps
3600 S. W. Holly Lane
Topeka, Kansas 66604
Margie J. Phelps
3734 S.W. 12th
Topeka, Kansas 66604
Ben Phelps
3632 S.W. Churchill
Topeka, Kansas 66604
Rebekah Phelps-Davis and Chris Davis-Phelps
1216 S.W. Cambridge
Topeka, Kansas 66604
Theresa Davis
3632 S.W. 12th Street
Topeka, Kansas 66604
Shirley Phelps-Roper and Brent Roper-Phelps
Sam Phelps-Roper
3640 S.W. Churchill
Topeka, Kansas 66604
Jonathan and Paulette Phelps
840 S.W. Watson
Topeka, Kansas 66606
Elizabeth Phelps
2001 S.W. 2nd Street